I will not go to the polls because I still have a shred of self-respect

When the sick atmosphere of society or some inappropriate "personal" message from the top of the government strongly touches a master film director, screenwriter, essayist such as Goran Marković, then the collision of his morality and artistic refinement with brutal reality is practically inevitable. And as if it didn't concern him at all that everyone else was tired or trampled, his sense of having to stay on top man, and especially nowadays, remains inviolable.

"Today I received a letter signed by a certain Aleksandar Vučić", writes Marković in his column on Peščanik, addressing the sender, regarding the payment of 4000 dinars and 100 euros to pensioner accounts. "Where did you even get the idea that for a certain amount of money I could love someone like you?" Your letter, which in terms of content and style belongs to pornographic literature, obviously counts on the recipient's lack of dignity and self-respect. In all likelihood, you consider the citizens of this country to be a nebulous bunch of worms that are ready for any humiliation in order not to get their hands on some trash, a miserable church, alms that you give them from their own (!) pockets. And you do all this by advertising your criminal organization, which spends our looted money in the best gangster manners, while not failing to highlight its own evil and primitive darkness. Well, I'm not one of those people. That's why I take your letter as an insult that I will not forget. You went too far."

"WEATHER": You recently, before these "certain" elections, signed an appeal asking President Vučić to resign. About 50 intellectuals signed that appeal, public figures, university professor. What is the scope of such an initiative?

GORAN MARKOVIĆ: It is a gesture that will have no practical effect, but will have moral significance. And although there is no hope that any reaction will happen, let alone the resignation of the president, I think that he and the people around him should know what thinking people feel and take that into account. Because they are too relaxed in their omnipotence and do not realize how great the discontent is, and that people cannot stand this situation any longer. Maybe it will be a sign for them, I don't know if they will learn from it (they certainly won't), but I calmed my conscience. The proposal was reasonable and honorable so I had no reason not to sign it.

One of the anonymous comments on that news read: nothing can change, in each and every one of them, and follow the news and politicians as little as possible. Is it a new model of citizen and voter?? And what does that have to do with the boycott option?

I don't like the word at all and I don't belong to any boycott movements. Personally, I will not go to the polls because I still have a shred of self-respect. I don't want to participate in one, and that is clear to every child, set-ups, in a general fraud. It is my right to say: I know what it is about, thank you, without me. And that's my reason why I won't go to the elections, and whether I think the boycott as a movement makes sense and whether it will do something, I really don't have an opinion on that. I don't believe that anything will fundamentally change, especially since I see how recently this all-powerful government, which reached the status of omnipotence through fraud, blackmail and all possible dirty acts, is trying to create a semblance of some opposition, some democracy at the last moment and how he tries so that, if he does not help, then he does not touch the opposition parties that go to the elections.

There is an ever-increasing part of the electorate that no longer finds support even in a strong political idea, nor in a strong political group, so it seems that it has finally been reached "gologist" man and his completely individual decisions about elections?

photo: marija janković

It can also be very positive. People who constantly need a leader, that is, a father, should reach the stage when they will realize that there is no father. The father is deceased, and the people are orphans. Each of us feels like an orphan and the only thing we can do is take matters into our own hands and start making our own decisions. So, for example, just refusing to go to the polls is a decision that will not have practical consequences, but will have long-term consequences for changing people's consciousness.

Recently, by the way, things have been happening that are very positive. For me, for example, one of the most positive things is the birth of the movement Let's Defend the Rivers of Serbia, that is, Let's Defend the Rivers of Stara Planina, Toplodolci. These are people who have taken matters into their own hands and are trying to prevent the construction of small hydroelectric plants and the destruction of nature. I hear that Brnabićka called them anarchists. Well, what's wrong with anarchists if you have a terrorist government on the other side? After all, to be honest, the only political option that is close to me is anarchism.

Or, I see yesterday that the citizens of Pancevo protested about the cutting of trees in the park, they demolished the fences and entered into the prohibition of the authorities. People are suddenly breaking free, I would say. There is a germ of some self-feeling that personally, as individuals, they can do something. So, I'm not going to take part in their elections, but I'm not going to lock myself in a room either, but I'm going to try to go out on the street and demonstrate my understanding of the world. That is very important and I think things are slowly developing there. This is the weak point of this government, it doesn't count on the fact that people will start liberating themselves. First from fear, and then from authority, and finally from prejudices, illusions and stupidity with which they have been poisoned for decades. And after releasing the fear comes, in my opinion, the next stage where people tell them: you don't exist, you are nothing.

So how?, when they do exist?

No, no. They exist as long as we think they exist and as long as we believe they exist, and they are only a criminal handful, a handful of shady types. They are not the will of the people, the will of the people. They only managed to come to power through various frauds, blackmail and with the help of a million such things, to gain a foothold in it, so that they can now, like any mafia organization, destroy it all. Now, if people suddenly say, "No, you don't exist!" then they really become - nothing. I, for one, believe that they do not represent anyone or anything. That's my position, that's why I'm not going to the polls. I will not participate in elections organized by anyone and anything. In the same way that the people from Stara Planina realized at one point that they could stand up to some arrogant criminals who came to take away the only thing they had - life, rivers, air. I was on Stara planina and it is really the last stronghold of natural harmony. And now someone wants to kidnap and take money by pushing rivers into pipes. It is not natural and cannot survive. It can be ruined as far as it goes, but it cannot survive. Just as this government cannot survive either. Because it also represents, in a way, unnatural fornication.

And again, when you look at the bigger picture including all sets of authorities, bus, disciplined mass, is there still that vibe of liberated people?

I would say there is. Or maybe I just want it to be? I don't know if it's actually happening, but I'd say that little streak of rebellion speaks for itself. Before Milosevic fell, I made two films for the then B92. Both films show that rebellion existed, that it is born even in the worst of times. The first film was called Crazy people and it concerned '96, where I observed the crowd as a phenomenon of rebellion. After that I made a film Unimportant heroes where I observed rebellious individuals. The idea of ​​that film is to show that there are people, individuals, who rebel against the totalitarian system on their own, even though it may be in vain, even though it is a Sisyphean job. I made portraits of several such "little" people who said no. It fascinated me.

I wonder, for example, how many people are now capable of refusing to take a photo of their ballot on which they circled Aleksandar Vučić? How many people, in addition to those who will not vote, will refuse to vote for him? Are there people who still keep to themselves? Is there still self-respect? Is there still dignity? I think a lot of work was done to destroy all that. This regime has done a lot to humiliate people.

photo: marija janković

And secondly, he simplified everything so that these are the most simple times in the history of Serbia. The country is run by one fan leader, he behaves like that and has such a vocabulary. He sits in the crowd on the stadium stand and yells at the other opposing fans, insulting them. And our entire reality is reduced to the exchange of swear words, insults, humiliation, contempt, disrespect, lack of empathy.

When I was in Spain at a festival, because I like football, I went to a football match, I watched Valencia. People were sitting there with small children, they went out to have fun at a football game, they cheered in a very cultured way. And then something happened that I will never forget: the game ended, 30.000 of us headed towards the city and suddenly everyone stopped. I thought something dangerous had happened, but no, the red light came on for pedestrians. 30.000 people stopped at the traffic lights, can you believe it?

Here, they worked wholeheartedly to eliminate the civilized way of life. The leader of the fans has tried to make simple, primitive relations prevail, and people have simply forgotten that there is such a thing as self-respect, or respect for others, or a feeling for any element of value in a civilized way of life. It may still be recoverable. I have witnessed many times, both here and in other countries, where all seemed to be lost, but it turned out not to be.

That it really isn't like that, the elections could perhaps bring some chance for change here. Forwards, if the weather were now like it was 10 or 15 years ago, when big party conventions were held before the elections, which were supported by many public figures, would you be a guest at one of the parties?

No. At the last convention I attended, I gave my support to Saša Janković, at that time we all still believed that it was possible to go to the polls and win. Later, of course, it became clear that this was absolutely impossible. But there is also the fact that I am not someone who organizes in a party and who gives his strength and creativity to a party.

We have seen that you do not even agree with your Free Citizens Movement.

Yes, I'm in the minority.

And everything you say is the complete opposite of what that movement decided, but you are still a part of it.

Because I believe in democracy and because I believe that if I am in the minority, I don't have to be an enemy to those who are in the majority. I accept the decision of the majority. I don't agree with that decision and I think it's wrong, but I don't want to make a conflict out of it.

You don't want to leave the Movement because of that?

No. It's simply that I think differently than most, as always. That's why I'm not surprised by that situation. I am not a formal member of any party, not even the PSG, I am in its Political Council, which consists of older, honorable and smart people, they are not crooks who joined the party just to get their hands on some charm. These are civilized people who have a certain attitude and the fact that my attitude differs from the majority is not a reason not to support them. What is certain is that their intentions are honest, that they are not calculating. If those people messed with the authorities in any way, I would instantly turn around and none of them would see me again. But it's not like that. They believe in the possibility that something can be done by going to the elections, and I believe that the elections are the most ordinary fraud. Otherwise, I see my engagement as a salvation for my soul, I act according to my conscience and if someone wants to notice it, let them notice it, if they don't, then again, fine. I'm calm about that.

A year ago you told me in an interview for "Time" that in this country we have two poles of human existence: abuse and freedom. Is that division still valid and what is the relationship between abuse and freedom now??

If I had to somehow baptize the current situation, it would no longer be abuse, but - sadism. On the part of the government, it's a sneer at someone else's impotence, and on the part of these others, it's no more freedom than grumbling. Those who still believe in freedom, justice, humanity, slavery. So there is an absolute, perverse supremacy of sadists and the impotence of those others who are even masochistic in some way. Maybe that is too drastic and oversimplified, but the fact is that some enjoy their supremacy, while others groan in their weakness. That's how I see the present moment.

Is there hope?, solution? How are you, for example, reacted when you heard that the EU will not come to Serbia to control the elections because of the fear of corona?

In the European Union, they selfishly look only at their own interests, and we are not interested in them at all. Perhaps rightly so, because who are we? A disappearing nation, a nation numbering around a few million troubled, lost souls. We are irrelevant to them. They look at everything pragmatically, think about what can spoil their interests. I remember that since Slobodan Milošević, we have been fulfilling certain conditions so that we will allegedly become members of the EU - this is nonsense, deception. I have calmed down since I realized that we will never enter the EU. And now, as far as that is concerned, I am perfectly calm. Seriously. Why should I worry about something that will never happen. Just to lose the joy of life by hoping for something that has no chance of coming true? We cannot rely on anyone but ourselves. But, I say, the only group of people I could rely on are those highlanders from Toplo Dol. Those are the only people I believe can do something in life. Or these Pančevci. There are no others. So, those who showed, with forgiveness, that they have balls.

You no longer trust organized political parties?

As a declared anarchist, I don't pay much attention to organized nonsense. Maybe I once believed in the Democratic Party, voted for it several times thinking that they represent someone who will lead us to a civilized society. But, when they began to disintegrate into derivatives, into dozens of different interest groups, how can I not say: Well, get along, everyone! When Đinđić was killed, they used that tragic circumstance to break up. Then they did not become compact, they did not become even stronger, but, on the contrary, they became rags.

That's why I don't believe much in parties. The only serious parties here are SNS and SPS, because they are organized according to the old, good mafia tradition. The rule is known there, the "best man" is known. And you know what happens to those who don't listen. Recently, the most interesting to me are the socialists. I see them as a group of millionaires, as lovers who have been fattening up over a number of years. A friend told me a very interesting thing. He met Ivica Dacic on one occasion, during Vučić's time, and asked him what the SPS's policy was now, and Dacić told him, of course, very humorously: "Our policy is - the Germans pass by, and we pretend to be dead." And that's the policy. When these pass, they will rise again. So if the partisans come, they will play dead again.

The latest column on Peščanik, called "22. Jun" you end with the words: "I was thinking feverishly: Looks like no one's chasing me yet. Maybe not? Or the hunt for dissenters will begin later? " Zaista, How will all this end??

There is one catch, and that is that when you reach a certain number of years, then you are no longer afraid of anything. That's why I'm surprised when I see that old people are afraid, I've talked about that several times. What do they have to lose? I mean, one should somehow end one's life honorably, one should make some kind of life point. I will never forget the painter Mića Popović who appeared at the student protests in 1996, how he spoke phenomenally! When he uttered it, he was at the end of his life and after that he died very quickly. He wasn't afraid like these pensioners today who shake and say: We'd better vote for Vučić, we'll survive somehow with his help, he'll give us something, give us some church money... I really don't understand that.

Yet, we always talk about omnipresent fear. Where does he come from now to such an extent when even in the nineties there were fewer of them?

Now there is a new dimension that did not exist then, and that is the fascisization of society. Fascist forces are on the rise and are probably quite helped by the regime, both morally, physically, and materially. There are all these covenanters, leviathans, vacici, fuehrers, and all of this is in some kind of harmony with the regime. The right-wing phalanx, from Šešelj onwards, is in a big rush and it causes fear. Milošević was not a fascist, he was perhaps something else, but not a fascist. Today, the right has a great advantage over the left. Milošević and his faithful lover killed the left, they crushed it, it does not exist. This SPS, as I said, is a team of millionaires who crunch their money. Are they perhaps fighting for some disenfranchised workers, are they in conflict with the authorities over the rights of working people, are they fighting for the poor? Well, they have nothing to do with it, they literally have nothing to do with it! So, in my opinion, the surge of the right has brought about these dark leaden times. And fascism always brings that darkness. You can feel the lead in the air. The only left is actually anarchists and when I say that I am an anarchist, it does not mean that I am a member of some anarchist organization, I am only an anarchist in the philosophical sense.

The fascism you mention brings us back to your dramatic forebodings?

I hope it doesn't come to the Night of the Long Knives, which is kind of the logical sequence. And we know what happened in the Night of the Long Knives. Then the ultra-right, hooligan troops, which in Germany were called SA squads, and which wanted to take over power from Hitler, were disbanded. Then in the Night of the Long Knives he made a slaughter among them and drove them away from the game. In my view, we have the SA detachments that I have listed, the covenanters, leviathans, vacici and others, and I hope that the next escalation will not occur when they, in their desire to replace their previous support, will try to come to power. That would be very dangerous and lead to another twilight state, much darker than this one today.

Totalitarian systems are capable of producing such dangers. And that's why we all feel - anxiety. We live lives filled with all kinds of anxieties. No one lives peacefully here, there is constant tension, tension, ten thousand volts are constantly whipping around us here, and we, of course, have adapted to it and manage as best we can.

A "what will happen next" with free-thinking people?

I think they'll be sitting locked in apartments with cupboards pushed up against the door.

When Prime Minister Brnabić says "i won't" when asked if they want to check if a certain person is a criminal, what we are witnessing, demonstration of what?

The problem with the Prime Minister is that she seems to be taking herself seriously. She does not see herself as a ficus tree, as some people have nicely called her, but she has started to see herself as an oak tree. But the pot in which it grows is small. So at some point the plant will dry up. That she stuck to her status as a ficus, not at all, but now she suddenly started to speak harshly, that she has an opinion, which is obviously disastrous for her. If he thinks he can survive all this, he shouldn't make a sound of himself.

The election is on Sunday. What will interest you most as a result?: how many votes did Vučić get?, how many people boycotted the elections, how many votes did PSG get?...?

Those in power will get as much as they think they need and as much as they determine is the least suspicious. Whether it will be 54 percent, 71 percent, 62 percent, it is irrelevant, they will determine it themselves and create their own parliament. However, I am not a political analyst and I will not deal with percentages. I will deal with the phenomena of human behavior, that interests me. I have to say that we artists, especially those of us who deal with the dramatic arts, are in a way the profiteers in these circumstances. Because even in the worst situations we find material for what we do, and it can be a gloomy time like this.

Do you follow the political pre-election program?, representation of the parties, debate?

No, of course, I'm not interested in them. I'm already at the stage where when he appears, you already know who I'm talking about, I immediately turn off the TV. And I "removed" myself from the news. No more purpose. I prefer to use that time and read something good, there are always good books that I missed reading. I couldn't read during the corona virus, but maybe now I can.