The anniversary is approaching. falling canopy at the railway station in Novi Sad. The general feeling in society is that time has sped up. A year ago, we were an obedient society under pressure, and today we are "rebellious citizens". Some among us, from respectable people with impressive careers, have become "leaders of the colored revolution" and are being taken as such.
One of them is a professor. Vladan Djokic, rector of the University of Belgrade. When it comes to what are the most important changes that society has gone through, in an interview with "Vreme" he says that the most important thing is that young people get involved and have an attitude, and then also that confidence in the academic community has been restored: "The academic community has become an institution that has the highest rating and is the most trusted. And what is perhaps most important - in addition to the students animating the citizens, in addition to animating us elders, they managed to animate the youth as well. animated even those younger than themselves, high school students, and even elementary school students. And that is a kind of encouragement that in the future we will have generations who will take care of our society and who will contribute in an engaged way to making our society better, more democratic and to have the rule of law in the true sense of the word".
"WEATHER" When we rewind the movie, we have forgotten a little what Serbia looked like just before the canopy fell. We had huge protests over the mass murders in the "Fishmonger", Orasje and Dubona. We also had anti-lithium protests that marked the entire summer of 2024. So part of society was not apathetic, something was happening, but it seemed like something was missing, some key factor to really create a civil rebellion. Was that factor the fall of the canopy as crowning evidence of state corruption and the fact that young people rose up, students, or maybe both equally?
VLADAN DJOKIĆ: Well, I'd say both are equal. On the one hand, there was an accumulation of certain situations that happened in previous years, first of all the ones you listed, but also others. Somehow that anger, rage, revolt of the citizens, but first of all the youth, accumulated.
What was previously, let me say, discouraging in the long term is that young people did not become active at all, nor did they publicly express their views, nor did they speak out about any of the events relevant to our society. And then another in a series of tragic outcomes broke the glass of the citizens' reconciliation. So, one event in a series of events that clearly showed what is happening in our environment and what are the actual reasons for such tragedies. That's why I think there is both: on the one hand, for a long time we had a conciliatory, ignorant attitude and closed our eyes to the problems of violence, arrogance, arrogance, and on the other hand, what the students as a young generation carried on their shoulders, is their definition of patriotism, which awakened many in this general apathy. If it weren't for them, I don't believe that the will to change would have been activated to such an extent and in such a persistent manner.
How have you changed?? You are a professor., rector... But today you are a man who survives the media chase and persecution, speak at protests, you have been invited to interviews with the police...
I think that I have not changed in the domain of what I do and what my duty is as rector of the University of Belgrade. If any professor of our university was in the position of rector at this moment, I think he should behave the way I behave, that is, defend the autonomy of the university, stand up for the students and support what the new generations stand for. I think that it is the duty of everyone who is at the head of an institution that has a tradition of more than 200 years as the most significant cultural and educational institution in our environment and in the region. So I think that's something that I would say was expected under the circumstances. Of course, time will show whether we were worthy of the role and responsibility that comes with the highest university title.
I think that what I do, I do for now only within the framework of what I am, which is a professor and rector of the University. And at these gatherings you mentioned that I spoke, I spoke as the Rector of the University, not as a political figure. Providing knowledge is not the sole responsibility of higher education. In addition to educating students for certain disciplines, we also encourage them to be socially active, to think critically, to express their views on some social phenomena. And that, in fact, is the basic feature and difference between higher and lower levels of education. People who are against the academic community know this well, but they will not accept it as a factual situation and a duty of higher education. And that duty is that students develop the ability to think about issues of public importance - it goes without saying - to express their views freely, in a decent way, that all together means - to act academically.
But because of that role, the University is under attack.
Well, we have had certain threats against the University for many years. These threats can be classified into several types of pressures. One of the mechanisms is certainly economic, that is, financial. As the University of Belgrade, we have had problems with financing higher education for several years. We informed the public about this, requested certain changes in the law and sent certain proposals to the competent ministries of the Government of the Republic of Serbia. We did not receive a constructive response. Another type of pressure is the media narrative that is created in the University that the professors are doing nothing, that they are the organizers of criminal groups, fake news about how many students are enrolled, fake news about where there are vacancies.... I cannot understand it: that some state institution, some ministry or some official is trying to belittle a public higher education institution, its most prominent members and the academic community as a whole. This is a completely unacceptable attitude of the authorities towards one of the supporting pillars of any society that aspires to keep pace with the developed world.
How do you deal with the third type of pressure?, lawsuits, misdemeanor and criminal charges against the dean, vice-chancellor, rector?
It also happens to put pressure on the academic community. So the pressure is constant and the pressure is on several fronts. We are, in fact, constantly defending ourselves against baseless accusations and making efforts to maintain the regular functioning of the University in extremely difficult conditions caused by those whose duty it is to guarantee its autonomous work.
The public has forgotten that these problems are not new. Can you determine the moment when it started and whether it started on the day when the Ethics Commission established that Sinisa Mali's doctorate was plagiarized?
Surely that also has an impact. A few years have passed since then, it was 2019, but that probably has an impact on the whole development of the situation. Then came 2022, when certain budget inspections from the Ministry of Finance checked the operations of certain higher education institutions and where, based on the fact that certain regulations and the law were not harmonized, they found certain irregularities in their work and tried to punish those higher education institutions with huge fines that those institutions would absolutely not be able to deliver in a few years. That's when the tension actually started. In the last five, six years, there has been constant pressure on the academic community, and the academic community and universities are a thorn in the side of those in power. It's actually amazing. Generally, universities are the pride of other countries, of the entire society, of the entire country.
And at one point there were those famous negotiations with Prime Minister Matsuta...
At the first one, I was the only one, but in most of those meetings there were other rectors of state universities. As I would say, it is not a negotiation. This is actually a conversation where we tried to insist that the law be respected on many topics, primarily related to financing, the payment of material costs, salaries, the repeal of the regulation, the beginning of the new school year, and all that was problematic in this period.
We did not have any mechanism in those negotiations by which we could influence how that financing would be regulated. Everything is in the hands of the state and they procrastinated with various decisions, they did not make them on time, the law was violated on several occasions - when wages were reduced, when the decree was passed and how, for what purpose and with what consequences it was applied. We are now trying to correct the "crooked Drina" on many issues instead of dealing with the prosperity and current issues of the University's future, how it should function in the next five years, how to develop, how to engage talented young people, how to better equip faculties and institutes...
What is their communication style? What is the atmosphere like at those meetings??
photo: marija janković...
I can say that the Prime Minister can be talked to normally. The atmosphere is normal, there are no high tones or unpleasantness. He is a member of our academic community, a professor at the Faculty of Medicine. He understands the situation, but he has his own agenda, which is in the direction of what the government decides, that is, what someone imposes as the government's position, and he does not deviate from it. So, he advocates for the teaching to be implemented, to return to teaching and to start the teaching process.
We go there to talk with some "survival agenda" - without any development plan, we talk about elementary things. This is not a conversation that should be held between the prime minister and the rector. We are discussing, by force of circumstances, whether teachers' salaries should be paid, whether material costs should be paid, when, by law, the state should do that. And we are now struggling with what date the salary will be paid, what date the material costs will be paid... So, at that level we are talking, these are the topics of the Prime Minister of the Republic of Serbia and the rector of the university, quite derogatory not only for us as individuals but also for the institutions we represent.
Before this, students were described as the written off generation, uninterested in politics, interested in finishing college as soon as possible, goes abroad. Were you surprised??
I can't say I wasn't surprised, I think everyone was somewhat surprised. We got to the point where we now have a new model that they quickly established. This new model is reflected in the system of their organization, models of their communication, a specific attitude towards authorities, which is a global specificity of their generation, in a system of communication in which, perhaps only for us, they are somehow more hermetic, cocooned. It is a new moment, completely different from, say, my generation or some generations closer to me. And I think that the great support they received from professors and citizens indicates that they are correct in their thinking, performance, and functioning. Regardless of how much we may, at some moments, some of their moves are not clear or do not suit us or we think they are not right. They get results. They animated the whole society, people not only in academic environments, but also in smaller towns, in villages. That awareness about students is changing, it has become interesting and valuable to be a student.
They animated the younger generation, I think that is a special success. There is little talk about it, but let's say, several times I have heard children talking and saying: "When I grow up, I will be a student." We older people accepted their rebellion, their initiative. But these younger people who are coming now, they accepted them as role models. It is a sign that in the future there will be more people here who will think in the right way, incorruptible, creative, critical and constructive, determined and persistent.
That brings us to the question of the student list. We have from 22. November of the student blockade with those four requests where they, I think so, they really believe that the institutions of this country can fulfill them. Then they realize that it won't happen and they decide on the demand for elections that they present in May. Is it an authentic transformation and accelerated political maturation of the student movement?
They have been waiting for months for the demands to be fulfilled. The demands were not political, but based on the rule of law. And when they didn't get an answer from the one they were supposed to get an answer from, they came out with a political demand. Insisting on elections is a political demand. Is that right or wrong? On the one hand, it can be said that students should not engage in politics, but every person has the right to engage in politics, management issues, socially relevant topics, so there is nothing controversial. I think that request is justified when the initial requests are not fulfilled. It is justified that there is now one request that would unite it all. The students said that through the request to call for extraordinary parliamentary elections, they want a change that should ensure that their initial demands are met. Of course, in some future time, if there is a change of government. So, they want change in a democratic way, and there are no democratic ways without elections.
What is interesting about that list and what indicates that the students really want the state to function properly, and that they are not interested in the government, is the fact that there will not be a single student on that list. So, it is already a generous move, a gesture with which they show what they want. They don't want power, they want the state to function. That's a powerful message.
They distanced themselves from the parties, meaning both those in power and those in the opposition. They want their list to be non-partisan, they want there to be people in whom they have confidence, who will resolve the demands regarding the rule of law, fair elections and media space if there is a change of government. So I think a movement like that has a lot of power. What is specific and unknown is that such a situation has not yet been seen, neither here nor elsewhere. It's a challenge.
A group is being formed here that is not a party and will be a group of citizens. The undertaking is still all on the shoulders of the students and it is difficult. They are fighting for their world, that is worthy of respect and unconditional support from teachers and parents.
How important is it that these people, in whom the students have placed their trust, be aware that they must not squander that trust and this much sacrifice that the students make?
They should be an extension of what the students have envisioned and what they have been advocating for for a year. So it will be a big responsibility and I guess that's why it takes a long time for them to compile the list, that is, to select certain candidates who would be on the list. And those are 250 people who should be trusted and who should not betray that trust. Yes, and what is also good is that actually every institution, higher education, from all these state faculties nominates candidates. So it will be distributed throughout the territory of Serbia.
How do you see the attitude of the opposition towards the student list?? We have heard opinions that the change of government cannot be the only topic of the election.
I assume that every opposition party has its own program and thinks about how to act in which situation. As far as I understand, several political parties and movements support the student demands and say that they will not participate in the elections. Some political parties will come out. It will probably be evaluated until the last moment, that is, until the moment when the elections are announced, and then they will see how and in what way they will react. The attitude towards the student list is changing, the balance of power that was there so far is no longer the same, because there is an actor who opposes the government, who is stronger than the current opposition actors, and this creates some kind of concern in the part of the opposition.
The opposition recognized the new, stronger, an unknown player from himself. However, we and the day-today, when there are no blockages, when there are not many mass street protests, we still have serious attacks. Is the public aware of how much these young people put their heads in their bags and how much they risk for change to occur?
Well, I'm not sure that all spheres of society are equally ready to help. Besides the students, the greatest burden was borne by people who are educated, not only in higher education, but also in secondary and primary education, these are actually the spheres that bore the greatest burden. These are people who were fired, without pay, suspended, with criminal or misdemeanor charges, etc. Sporadically, other structures are also under pressure, such as, for example, in some periods there were lawyers or farmers, and even individuals who actively supported students, while other parts of society passively supported it all. Students cannot be expected to present everything themselves. So, society must be more aware of the fact that everyone who wants change, everyone who somehow thinks that life can be better in this country, should help in this. It's almost as if everyone is waiting: now it's the first of September, so education will stop; now the first of October will come, so the students will; now it's the first of November, so the anniversary of the fall of the canopy and everything is expected from students, from education, from pupils, from professors, from parents of students, from parents of pupils...
From all the testimonies of those who were arrested, who were in custody and mistreated, it can be seen that the use of force is excessive and that the humiliations are excessive in that and numerous other situations and that we do not even have complete information about what is happening and what happened to our students, colleagues, fellow citizens.
My opinion is that the student list will have more and more support. Some think that support will decline over time, I think the opposite. There is growing dissatisfaction with the authorities, and if the elections are in a year, I think the students will have even more support than now, regardless of what happens in the meantime.
Does that mean that the government is changing?, and that means anti-corruption and the fight for the rule of law, is the topic of the next elections?
Well, yes, that's what the students said, and it's related to their initial demands. So, their initial demands were related to the rule of law and the fight against corruption. And that is the basis for the future. A long period awaits us until we reach a civilized and democratic society. It will not come overnight, it takes a long time for people's consciousness to change. Not all our laws are bad. It is dangerous that government representatives violate their powers. Development of society, trust in institutions is a long process, but the prerequisite is - change, the one that is positive, essential and permanent.
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