"I believe that the members of the SPS and JUL, those who are not mentioned in the newspapers and on television as thieves, rich or that they are suspicious and responsible for some other reason - I believe that they are the ones who made an agreement with the new authorities to that government protects their material and other interests, their rather large wealth, and that in return they contribute to the bribery of their yesterday's comrades and personal friends"
"If they ask you how I'm doing, feel free to tell them that I'm depressed, although no one believes it." That's Mira Marković's answer to the usual "How are you?", while off the record we discuss the tumultuous events of the past 14 years. It is late in the evening, Dedinje is quiet. The room in which we are talking is large and bright, furnished with white furniture; behind us is the fireplace, next to it is a big globe, in the corner is a television, at the other end are several large pots with huge artificial benjamins...
Although she firmly admits that she does not follow television and newspapers, the media in general, it soon becomes clear that she is informed about events in society, both before and after October 5. During the last fourteen years, from the Eighth Session onwards, the professor of sociology at the Belgrade Faculty of Science and the wife of Slobodan Milošević, later the head of the JUL Directorate, has gone from the absolute top of the government to the latest accusations of the most serious crimes. For a woman whose husband is accused of war crimes, with daily speculation whether the Kostunica and Đinđić governments will extradite him to The Hague, for a mother whose children are the subject of more and more media accusations, Mira Marković appears perfectly calm and serene in conversation.
He answers even the most unpleasant questions quickly and calmly, recounts the tragicomic details from the time of the bombing without hesitation and casually comments on dozens of events, presenting juicy details that could surely fill the front pages of newspapers for months to come... He ironically mentions his friends, who "died them after 5 . forgot about October" and adds that it is not the first time, but he does not spare bitter blows at the expense of former allies and the opposition in power. All this hardly fits into the idea of someone whose fate, and perhaps even life, depends precisely on the moves of that same, new government.
There is a big difference between Mira Marković in private and the image left by the electronic media reporting on her ex chair performances at various tribunes and political gatherings. This is why, he says, she is poorly focused in front of the camera. He admits that he doesn't like cameras, he doesn't like being photographed in general. Even today, even today, the media pressure for interviews is no less than in the past years, on the contrary.
He gives much of his attention and time to his grandson Marko, who is now with them all the time. He would like to draw for him, while she writes.
As during the bombing, he still meets daily with the members of the JUL directorate and does not agree with the opinion that the position of the left parties is hopeless, and the outcome of the battle is known in advance. Or, as she says herself: "Fighting is my world." I don't know how to win. After one battle was over, I was moving to the place where another one was being fought..." This time, however, her fight is harder than ever. Now she is uncertain.
"WEATHER“: The last one put smo se saw after Daytona. Many things su se u meanwhile changed; tada je it seemed kao da se situation u region calms down - ended war u Bosnia i Croatia, a Milosevic na To the west characterized kao "factor surprise i stability". What je started upside down?
MIRA MARKOVIC: After Dayton, definitive peace was in sight over the area where the suffering people who were the inhabitants of the former Yugoslavia lived. I, who foresaw the disintegration of Yugoslavia in 1989, and was convinced of the war in 1990 and was against the disintegration of the country, and especially against its disintegration through war, was very happy with the peace. Peace for all people. Anyone who is familiar with the Dayton events, especially the innermost circle of those who negotiated and decided in Dayton, know that Slobodan was the key man of the Dayton peace. The American administration counted on such a role for him and was not mistaken in that account. If they wanted peace in Bosnia and the Balkans, they had not only a sincere but, above all, a capable and influential ally in the President of Serbia. But, that newly established peace does not seem to have suited someone who was deciding what would happen in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the Balkans. Either there was someone more important than the ideologues and creators of the Dayton policy, or that policy was abandoned. Someone and somewhere, important, the most important, decided to continue the process of destabilization of the Balkans and to abolish this, the third Yugoslavia. For these purposes, the Albanian minority in Kosovo was used, aggressive nationalism and separatism among the Albanian people were encouraged, weapons were delivered and powerful logistics were prepared for an armed rebellion of part of the Albanian population in Kosovo - against the Serbs, against Serbia, against Yugoslavia.
The army and police of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia were obliged to stop that rebellion, just as all armies and police, i.e. all countries in the world, are obliged to stop when part of their territory is threatened. The resistance to Albanian separatism and terrorism by the Yugoslav army and police was declared a crime by the governments of the countries that belonged to the NATO alliance, which was punished by a three-month bombardment. That's the short and whole truth.
What je za vessel personally meant intervention NATO-a against Yugoslavia?
I then, and still now, on the occasion of the so-called NATO invasion against Yugoslavia, thought that it was the third world war in which 19 of the strongest countries in the world fought with united forces and the most modern weapons against nine million inhabitants of one country, with long-term sanctions and the maintenance of millions of refugees. endlessly exhausted lands. That war is a shame for those countries, for those governments that were mostly left-wing, and a humiliation for science, whose enormous achievements in all fields were used to cause human suffering, to destroy material goods and to cause death, instead of improving the lives of poor people, for happiness of all people and for a longer and more beautiful human life as a whole.
Da li je intervention could biti prevented da je guided different politika, pre everything na Kosovo?
Perhaps it could have been prevented if the agreement on the occupation of Serbia had been signed in Rambouillet.
Why su announced premature elections exactly za 24. September 2000. years - da li because anniversary 8. sessions?
Now I see for the first time that that date coincided with the time when the 8th session was held. I don't think anyone took that coincidence into account. It is pure coincidence.
Iz today perspective - da li bi bilo better za SPS i JUL da se it worked na regular elections?
As for the regularity of the elections - those elections were regular. It was held just two months earlier than the 1996 federal and local elections. They were held at the beginning of November. I don't think September or November would change anything in that matter.
How th experienced events u period od 24. September do 5. October 2000?
I was surprised by the results of the presidential election. Even today, I allow myself to say that I am quite competent to judge the mood of the public. I myself participated very actively in the election campaign and had a picture of the mood of the voters. That picture was in support of a different result than the one published on October 6. But it is possible that I was wrong; that the mood of the public, when it comes to the President of the Republic, was different. It is, however, a topic that I could analyze, very thoroughly, and therefore extensively. Which, of course, is impossible within a journalist's interview and within one answer to one question. I could write a political study or a sociological essay about it, if someone was free enough to publish it.
Yes li bili notified da su set off buses iz Čačka i it is li knew what se sve happened u Belgrade 5. October?
We heard in our house that trucks, buses and excavators were getting ready for Belgrade on October 5th, the night before and that morning. The information that, in this regard, reached my husband, and I heard it from him, did not indicate any serious violence. We both believed that it was a matter of some pressure not to reach the second election round for the President.
Although, really, we did not understand why that second electoral round should be prevented.
Nisu li VAM associates said da je nation dissatisfied Zato what je (i iz behavior Elections commission) existed doubt da se is preparing optional theft, jer je Kostunica won already u first circle?
First, I usually ask myself first. I did not notice that "the people are dissatisfied because there was a suspicion that election theft was being planned." Then, I myself did not notice that there was a suspicion that election theft was being planned. And, even I did not think that someone, in those days, for the elections in the competent state institutions, would prepare for electoral theft. And why should all this be done in the interests of SPS-JUL candidates? Slobodan Milošević was the head of Serbia and then Yugoslavia for ten years. He was not the first candidate for the office of president and he knew perfectly well that if this office is performed conscientiously and honestly, it does not bring anything for which a person would snatch, and it takes a lot from life, it is an endless burden for the one who performs it. there is not a single day that is not filled with worries, tensions and enormous work.
Being the president of the country is attractive only for someone who has no intention of working, for whom most of the work will be done by someone else, who lacks a sense of responsibility for the country and the people and who perceives this position as an opportunity to live well for a while and if he sometimes feels like it decides on other people's lives. And a special question is, even if someone suspected that theft would happen in the elections, is that the reason for setting fire to the federal assembly and the state television and mercilessly beating its journalists?
I really do not see any connection between the possible suspicion of possible theft and the beating of the director and journalists of the state television. And what, as you say, concerns my co-workers and their eventual warning about the dissatisfaction of the people and the suspicion of possible election theft, no one warned me about such things. My friends, colleagues, the world that I saw did not see what I did not see either.
Kada th found out da je won Kostunica?
On October 6, my husband received a message that Vojislav Koštunica wanted to see him. Slobodan agreed to see him. On that occasion, Vojislav Koštunica informed him that the Federal Constitutional Court had decided that he had won the presidential election and that this had been published in the "Official Gazette". My husband immediately accepted this information and congratulated Vojislav Kostunica. He told him, congratulating him, that he thought it was out of place for his term to begin by burning and destroying everything our son had and what happened the night before. Vojislav Koštunica, as they say, expressed his regret about it and said that he knew nothing about it.
How th accepted fact da je Kostunica won?
Slobodan addressed the public, he briefly stated once again that he congratulated the new president and that in the future he himself will deal with his party, his family and, especially, his grandson Marko. And that's all. No one in our family was sorry that he was no longer the president of the republic, and it was not difficult for us. It was difficult for us because everything happened in an unusual and unnecessarily aggressive way.
Yes li se painted da bi u events na streets 5. October (i u for days after toga) neko Could da harm Yours to the family or Vama?
Our family has been exposed to media terror since 1990. My husband has been subjected to physical threats for a decade. For a decade now, there have been circles from which he is threatened to be kidnapped, poisoned, arrested, killed... After October 6, all members of our family are exposed to danger, when it comes to our lives. We and our children, even our grandson, are threatened, threatened and threatened. That they will arrest us, kill us. And as far as media terror is concerned, it takes the form of a lynching that no nation has applied to any of its citizens, especially not to the president of the state who devoted the last fifteen years of his life exclusively to the interests of his people and received from that people, i.e. from its majority, recognition for that commitment in the way that the majority of that people elected him as their president four times. The pathological mind that came up with that lynching believes that it is not enough to expose only the current head of state to media terror, but that all members of his family should also be exposed to that terror. And the children, who were not involved in politics, who did not belong to any party, and the work they did had nothing to do with politics. On the contrary. Our family was exposed to a pogrom in which Stalinist and fascist experiences were united and perfected.
is not li to expected reaction na the previous one Period Kada su na authorities bili Your husband, SPS i JUL, na Period arrests i beatings students i activist Resistance, purges na University, repression nad to the media...
The previous government did not arrest or beat students. Nor the activists of Otpor. As is known, during the demonstrations in 96 and 97, which lasted for three months, the police were on the streets and did not intervene at all. It was strictly forbidden to her. I must admit to the dismay of the public, because those three-month "walks" through Belgrade stopped life in a large part of the city - traffic did not work, people went to work on foot, and those who had small children took them to kindergarten on foot in the dead of winter. schools did not work, shops also, a large number of shops in the center were looted... And the demonstrators were protected and sure that, despite everything, nothing would happen to them. If it wasn't like that, they wouldn't be walking with babies in strollers.
Police, however, it is not the rest passive, what se saw during winter, Kada su protesters broken watery cannons i beaten na Brankov the bridge?
Somewhere towards the end of the demonstrations, at the end of winter, water cannons were used on the New Belgrade bridge. That was the only repression and I don't see that it was particularly cruel. Similar demonstrations in Western countries would not take place even for a few days, and as a rule they are stopped very brutally. They don't hide that either and we all know perfectly well that it is so.
Furthermore, at the University, during the previous government, there were no purges...
A mass dismissals teacher i demolition autonomy university?
No professor of the University was fired from his job for political reasons. Only the Law on State Universities has been adopted, according to which the Minister of Education, i.e. the Government, appoints rectors, deans and presidents of the administrative boards of universities and faculties. This is the practice at state universities and state faculties in most European countries. The opposition at the time reacted violently, claiming that the rectors and deans of the faculties should be elected by the employees of the university, i.e. at the faculty. Self-management, which they criticized so much, suited them in this case.
Now is an opportunity to correct the mistakes of the previous government. Now they have the power - let them change the University Act, let them not leave it to the Minister of Education, that is, the Government, to appoint rectors and deans, let them be elected by the employees. But I doubt they will. Now, when the minister of this government decides who will be the rector and who will be the dean, he will not leave that opportunity to the employees of the faculty. Now that Law will be good.
As far as the repression of the media is concerned, there was none. Over 95% of the media in Serbia was in the hands of the opposition. In those media, the government is accused of all sins - that it is stupid, that it is incompetent, that it is corrupt, that it is lying, that it is useless, that it is the worst in the world. Rarely has anyone from the government reacted to these accusations. And then, two or three years ago, the Law on Media was passed, which stipulates material responsibility for untruths, slander and insults. That Law was, as it were, copied from the practice of Western countries, where severe financial and other penalties are provided for slander and untruths.
Forwards taj zakon je done suffocated freedom press u Serbia.
I wouldn't say there was a media blackout, but if there was, it was similar or smaller than in the countries whose information laws we used. These are the American Communications Act and the French Information Act, in which, admittedly, the penalties are much more rigid than those intended to be applied in our version of that law. That law was applied in Serbia for a very short time. Maybe not even a year. The government gave up on the implementation of the Law it passed and the media continued freely with lies and slander, insults and humiliation of people with whom they disagreed politically or in any other way.
But when you say that there were arrests, beatings, purges at universities and repression of the media - these are not empty words. You didn't make them up. It's happening - now! Since October 5, when RTS journalists were beaten in front of the entire public, activists and sympathizers of left-wing parties throughout Serbia have been continuously fighting somewhere. Even their children fight. When it comes to violence, it's still gone - political dissidents and their family members are fired from their jobs or demoted at work, so this practice reminds of the humiliations people were exposed to during the worst Stalinist days.
That's it it seems kao expected response those koji su experienced similar humiliation u period do 5. October 2000.
I have already denied that such phenomena existed. That's why I wouldn't go back to them again. And when it comes to violence, that's not all. On the night between October 5 and 6, the headquarters of the SPS in Belgrade were set on fire, as well as the headquarters of the SPS and JUL in many municipalities in Serbia. The directorate of JUL was robbed that night. At the same time, you have no one to complain to, that is, even if you do complain, no one will be held accountable for the burning and looting, and no one will be compensated for the damage. Courts have become completely dependent on politics. Several professors have been fired from the university in recent months, and new layoffs are also being announced. At the same time, it is not hidden at all that it is a removal from the university for political reasons.
And as for the media, they are all exclusively state-owned. The repression is that no opinion other than the one planned to be the only one can be published in them. There are rare exceptions. This interview with me also belongs to them. That is, it will be an exception, if everything is published as I said and if I don't have trouble because of it.
Therefore, the reprisals that you attribute to the current government did not happen at that time. They are happening now, albeit somewhat more and more dramatically than the enumerations listed in your question.
Since a variety versions o to that one what se happened 5. October. How much ima the truth u statements da je "Slobodan ordered da se kisses explosive na Studio B","da se liquidates 30 People","da se puca na demonstrators"...
I spent most of that day, October 5, with him. None of that is true. Just as absolutely nothing written about him and us in the press and broadcast on all television channels from October 6 to today is true. About what is true about October 5th and 6th and the days after and some days before that, nothing is written anywhere. Everyone is silent about that. Even me.
Why th se decided za silence?
Because the reasons why I decided to remain silent are for the sake of silence.
U publication "juicy details" iz life You i your families somehow especially leading the way newspaper who su u meanwhile still uz the new one power. What you think o "democratization media" like political, RTS-a? What you think o to people, sometimes close ones Vama koji su u meanwhile steel uz the new one power or left the state?
The following elements decided on this turnaround, which took place within a few days, but also within a few hours: 1.) fear, 2.) bribery, 3.) a low degree of development of political affiliation and personal loyalty and, 4.) an unclean conscience.
I attach particular importance to this fourth element, the unclean conscience. I assume that the first to join the new policy and the new government were those who, during the time of the previous policy and the previous government and thanks to that policy and that government, got quite rich illegally. In the desire to preserve that "considerable" wealth, and out of fear that this "illegal" wealth would not be found out, they put themselves at the disposal of the new government with the hope, and with the request, that it would protect them, that it would "forgive" them. And in return, in the most innocent case, they will leave the politics in which they participated, associates, comrades, and even personal friends from that story, and if necessary, they will accuse their comrades, associates and friends, if it is said that they should be accused. They will attribute to them the responsibility for the policy in which they themselves participated, often as its creators, in order to protect all the benefits and material goods that that policy made possible for them.
I assume, therefore, that all those from the previous government, who are not mentioned in the newspapers for any reason, are in fact dubious and often very rich people, who bought the silence of the current government about them by selling their party comrades, political associates and personal friends. And most often those who are honest people in both political and personal matters. That is why I believe that the members of SPS and JUL, who are not mentioned in the newspapers and on television as thieves, rich people or that they are suspicious and responsible on some other basis - I believe that they are the ones who made an agreement with the new authorities to give them that authority protect their material and other interests, their rather large wealth, and that in return they contribute to the bribery of their yesterday's comrades and personal friends. Or at least pretend to be crazy and not participate in their defense.
What sad rade i gde su your Deca, particularly se o Marku on a daily basis guesses...
The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Great Britain said during the bombing of Serbia that my children are out of the country. That hit me a lot. Marko was a volunteer from the beginning to the end of the war. His three-month-old son and Milica, for the three months that the bombing lasted, moved from one house to another, hiding, as it were, because they were a strategic target of NATO. For three whole months, I didn't know where Marko was, nor where Milica and little Marko were. Marija heroically spent all the nights in "Košava", on top of the "Ušće" building in New Belgrade, even though she knew that that building was one of the first targets, thus defying the war and the terrible injustice. At night, her dad and I begged her to leave that place. She replied that she would stay there alone until the end. I thought to myself - no one has such a daughter. I knew she was brave, but I didn't know she was so brave. She left the building "Ušće" only when everyone left it and when it was no longer possible to stay there. She came out last.
And then, that accusation by British Minister Cook, which was a lie and an injustice. I wrote him an open letter and explained where my children were. In our country, that letter was published in all media, and in the world, too. Two days after that letter, a rocket from NATO blew up the entire "Kosava". Everything Maria had no longer existed. I knew it was retaliation for that letter. The "Ušće" building was hit in only two places - one rocket went through the RTV "Košava" studio, and the other through the upper ground floor. None of them passed through SPS headquarters. Since that letter, my little grandson and his mom have moved frequently, going as far away from the city as possible, as far as possible from the eyes of possible locators. I thought then - my three-month-old grandson started his life by hiding and being beaten, just like I started mine in 1942. That's how they moved me and hid me from the Gestapo, from the time I was born, continuously, until I was freed.
After that, I decided that I would never again give the address of my children to anyone, even with the best intentions. And at this moment, they are mostly interested in those who have bad intentions towards them - although they don't know why they have such intentions either.
Markov the family se returned u the state. Why se ne return back i on?
Marko is justifiably very hurt. He did a lot for Požarevac and loved Požarevac very much. The summer disco "Madonna" affirmed a cultural and modern form of entertainment. Contemporary music was played in it, and the ambience was nice and tidy. "Madona" sold the cheapest Coca-Cola and the most expensive whiskey in Yugoslavia. That most expensive whiskey in Yugoslavia was a way for young people not to drink whiskey, and that cheapest Coca-Cola was an expression of his desire to make such a beautiful and modern disco accessible to the poorest young people. Discotheque "Madonna" was the supporter and creator of many festive events and large gatherings in Požarevac. One of such events was the 2000 celebration on the Town Square, which was attended by the entire town and which Požarevac will never forget. Of course, these were gifts to the city.
There is also a bakery that, like the disco, made good money, but was also part of his intention to raise the quality of services in the city and the aesthetic culture in general. It was a beautiful, cultural, romantic place. In beautiful colors, with pleasant music, with cultural service and a non-trivial offer. As for the Bambi Park, it was built together with the Bambi company. Each gave half of the funds. It was Mark's everything that concerned ideas, ambience, hygiene standards, culture of behavior. In financial terms, it was a no-profit job. If someone makes the most beautiful place for children's entertainment in the country out of the city garbage (and at the same time he does not profit from it in the material sense) and because of that becomes the subject of a chase, then it is really beyond all reason and morality.
The company "Madonna" and Marko personally helped a large number of individuals. He considered this help his duty and never boasted about it. Publicly announcing the help would degrade his motives for helping others. That was his opinion and I think he was absolutely right there. Marko believed that if you want to help, then you do it for the sake of the one who needs help, and not for your own advertising and boasting.
In the night between October 5 and 6, everything that Marko had and created with enormous work and enthusiasm was set on fire and stolen. The police did not protect him. The citizens were silent. Marko didn't believe it. Yes, so to him, who loved all people, who does not even know the number of those whom he entrusted with good, often very great good...
What was heard?
Hearing se da je Stambolic removed jer bi his eventual candidacy seriously threatened elections chances your a man?
It was also heard that my husband has diabetes (it is known that he does not keep a child, even when it comes to cakes). My Maria is rumored to have married Mitsotakis's son (although he has no male children). It was heard that Marko got a ten on the exam with me (although he never studied anything, he has completed high school). It was heard that I am opening a botanical garden (it is true that I like flowers, but I prefer artificial ones, I am not inclined to any activities in nature).
A thousand stupid things were heard and I wonder - why? Is it because the Albanian terrorists reached Vranje; that the Bor mine has not been working since October, but it was working during the Second World War; that electricity restrictions are everyday, and its prices are increasing; that we don't know how many soldiers and policemen were killed, and how many Serbs were slaughtered in the vicinity of Bujanovac... Do we not know all this because it is all truly terrible. In order to avoid those topics, that is, responsibility for the state of the country, the press counts the trees in our garden and investigates how many scones were produced daily in Milica's and Marko's bakery. Well, that's the essence of that "it was heard".
And Stambolić, as a potential opponent of my husband in the presidential elections, could not be that. His opponent in the presidential elections in September was NATO.
Arrests out of the blue, banishment from the country, beatings... All this happened to us in the last week alone. The Serbian Progressive Party, born from the foam left behind by their spiritual father Vojislav Šešelj, is returning to its roots. I can't escape from myself
"The levers of power are not in their hands," said Bishop Grigorije. "But there is something in the Holy Scriptures that I like very much, and that is that the power of God is revealed in weakness. So, all worldly power is on one side. And on the other side, in the hands of these young men and women is the weakness of this world. But in their weakness, the power of God or God's justice appears. That is why they are at such a great advantage."
The regime and its media have been trumpeting the "civil war" for months, and the government is the only one that has a patent for peace and stability - of course, with the help of the propaganda machine and the use of force. "It is a propaganda tactic of SNS that says: 'violence is everywhere, terrorists surround us, but we are here to save you,'" explains communication professor Jelena Kleut for "Vreme".
Students and citizens who accompany them on these walking feats, were welcomed as the most native together with those who came the day before from other places. A dove of peace was also released on the stage next to the promenade along the river - this symbolic gesture of the two students is the most impressive gesture of understanding and respect between the Bosniak and Serbian peoples since the end of the wars in the former Yugoslavia
The three-day parliament for the promotion of Aleksandar Vučić and his Movement for the People and the State was realistically a fiasco. But it was first of all conceived as a media spectacle for regime television directed by court promoter Željko "DJ Žeks" Mitrović, with scenography and iconography adapted to the Serbian political market.
Anyone who condemns the regime's targeting of people from the media, the non-governmental sector, the opposition and universities, must not agree to this targeting of RTS editors and journalists either.
The government of Đur Mazut is "counter-revolutionary", focused on retaliation and state and street violence against opponents of the regime
Depriving Dejan Ilić, an intellectual with an impeccable life and work biography, of his freedom, without the slightest meaningful reason, is just one of the brutal indicators that the regime has turned against its own citizens and is entering a phase of terror
Vučić and Šešelj: Where I stopped, you continue
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