In a law-abiding country, Marija Radovanovic, until recently secretary Faculty of Medicine of the University of Belgrade, would serve as an example of correct performance of work and work according to the law. However, in Serbia, after three warnings before dismissal - one more Kafkaesque than the other - and suspension, she was dismissed on January 23. The whistleblower, a lawyer by profession and mother of two children, says that her case is just one in a series of a large number of intimidation attempts that this government is increasingly aggressively implementing.
For "Vreme", we discuss the anatomy of her case, how the previous months were at the sessions of the Faculty of Medicine, what was illegal and what is being blamed on her.
"WEATHER" In one of your television appearances, you mentioned that you have been hearing for a year that you will "to fly from work". Where did those messages come from??
MARIJA RADOVANOVIĆ: After the Faculty of Medicine went into a blockade, the students asked us to support them with our signatures. Of course, I signed. I couldn't wait for something like that to happen. A few days later, a former colleague from the company where I used to work called me to convey a message from the Ministry of Health, from the minister himself, that I should be careful what I do, that I will "fly" and that there is no place for people like me at the university. I think it was on the 15th of February last year.
And what did you say to him about that??
I said - good. What else can I say? That, in such a situation, is the only possible answer. Either you're going to hide somewhere like a mouse or you're going to live your life the way you think it should be lived. After that, the pressure on all faculties generally intensified, so the sequence of events in my case was expected. I didn't know exactly how it would happen, nor can I say that at that moment a specific decision was made that I would be fired. But it was clear that all of us who expressed ourselves publicly in some way would suffer certain consequences. So aren't we already suffering from them everywhere? We don't know if someone will attack us when we go out into the street. That's why the pressures are not a surprise, it's just now up to us how we will deal with them and how we will fight against all this.
What are you being charged with??
On September 2, a session of the Faculty Council was held. It is important to emphasize the composition of that body: eight representatives of the Government, i.e. members appointed by the Government, four students from the student parliament which is very close to the regime here, while the other members are employed at the Faculty of Medicine. Thus, teachers and one representative of non-teaching staff.
At that session, a situation arose in which eight representatives of the Government, four students from the student parliament and four of our teachers - by the way, we are talking about directors, acting directors or assistant directors in health institutions, and they were appointed to these positions by this regime - voted for the illegal removal of the then dean, professor Tatjana Simić.
The entire session was conducted completely outside the Statute of the Faculty and the Rules of Procedure of the Council. First of all, the session was chaired by a person who did not have the right to do so because he was not employed at the faculty. The same person also signed the decision to replace the dean, although he was not authorized to do so. The decision had to be signed by the president of the Council, who previously resigned. However, they did not want to state his resignation in order to impose it on us svg the chairman.
You are theirs too., at that session, talked about omissions and violations of the law?
When the time came to vote on the proposal to state the end of the dean's mandate, I warned everyone present that what they were doing was illegal and that, ultimately, it was abuse of official position. Everyone was aware of that.
The dean was dismissed in violation of the law, completely contrary to the Law on Higher Education, which clearly states the conditions under which the term of office can be terminated. They referred to the alleged violation of the code established by the Ethics Committee of Serbia. However, the Ethics Committee of Serbia is a body established by the Ministry of Health and it has no jurisdiction over the faculties. It can be handled within health institutions, but not imposed on faculties and the University. It is, therefore, a non-competent body that makes decisions about the alleged violation of the code of ethics related to the field of health, not higher education.
At the same time, it is completely illegal that in that procedure the chairman of the Council, who submitted the motion for dismissal, was also a member of the Biomedicine Directorate of the Ministry of Health, which filed a report against Professor Simić, as well as a member of the aforementioned Ethics Committee of Serbia, based on whose decision she was dismissed. So, someone first files a report against you, then participates in the body that "condemns" you, and then is a member of the next body at the Faculty that dismisses you. The same person appears in all three instances.
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What happens next??
After that, after a few days, I drew up applications that I sent first to the Electoral Council, the Faculty's body consisting of all teachers, because the Faculty as an employer must be informed about what is happening, then to the Minister of Education, the Education Inspectorate and the Rector. I informed them about everything and provided them with the audio recording of that session made by the Legal Service. In this way, I introduced them to the case and requested that it be acted upon, that is, that the educational inspection conduct the procedure and determine that it is an illegal act.
I received information from the education inspector, who resigned due to all the pressure she suffered, that the Minister of Education ordered that my email be deleted immediately, since I sent the applications electronically and by mail, and that what arrived by mail, that is, through the office, should be put in a drawer and that it should not be acted upon. So, since September, nothing has been done about my applications, even though they were legally obliged to do so. After that I received a warning before dismissal.
The educational inspector resigned because of pressures related to the Faculty of Medicine, or was there something else?
photo: marija janković...
Because of all the pressures, not only related to Medical. Here, at the Faculty, they had several extraordinary inspections. The inspector I mentioned and her colleague were called to the minister's office, who forced them to sign minutes that they had not drawn up. So, they performed an inspection, established the facts, established that there is no irregularity with us in that particular case, and the minister gave them a record in which something else was written and asked them to put their signature. They didn't want to. I know they were threatened with disciplinary action against them, but not whether that ended up happening. But both women were seriously mistreated. I was recently contacted by an educational inspector from Novi Sad who was fired because she also did not want to sign minutes that she did not compile.
Let's get back to you.. How was the explanation of that warning before the dismissal?
Allegedly, I disrupted the work of the session by pointing out that they were acting illegally. But the main thing that is stated is that I reported an illegal transfer, and I did not ask the illegally appointed management if I could report them. It's like a burglar breaking into your apartment, and you ask him if you can call the police, so if he agrees, he can, if he doesn't agree, then nothing.
Then, after some time, a session of the Teaching and Research Council was held, which I attended. Otherwise, according to the Statute of the Faculty, the secretary participates in the work of all bodies. I was on sick leave at that moment, but I still came to the session considering that my presence was really necessary, both for the job itself and for the sake of my colleagues, one of whom was on maternity leave. So, on the one hand, there was a lack of people, and organizing everything is quite a demanding job, and on the other hand, my presence is required by the Statute.
I am now accused of the alleged abuse of sick leave, with the explanation that I hurt the employer's interests by coming to the meeting. I didn't go to work elsewhere and earn money on the side while I was on sick leave, which could only be considered real abuse.
Then another warning followed, due to attendance at the sessions. Then, at the electoral council, I allegedly did not act according to the work order by sitting on the chair I sit on every session, and Acting Dean Nataša Milić told me to move to another where no one would see me. I said that I would not, and with that, they say, I violated my work obligation. Although that session of the electoral council did not take place because we did not have a quorum, the warning before the dismissal stated that it happened because I disturbed it.
You also object to the presence of the media at one of the Sessions?
That was later. At a later session of the Council, which I attended again for the same reasons, one of the professors invited the media. I didn't take part in that, although I think that calling was useful in the given situation. However, they told me that I am not allowed and that I am not authorized to communicate with the media. And in our Statute, the secretary of the Faculty is clearly mentioned among the persons authorized to communicate with the media.
At the same time, they said that they made a decision that the media were not allowed, which was also untrue. That is, the Dean's College cannot make a decision on the work of another body - the Council. That body, which already has its own Rules of Procedure, is the only one that can regulate its own work. In short, it all seems as if the children were playing... Some buczkurish of everything and anything, but without any connection with the law.
What is your next move??
I will sue them and I will submit a request for the determination of a temporary measure of return to work until the end of the accidental procedure. I still hope that the courts are independent and follow the law. If that is the case, I expect that my requests will be accepted.
You said at the beginning of the conversation that you couldn't wait for the students to join the blockade, that is, for the student rebellion to start. Why?
I have been on the street since the "Savamala" case. For ten years now, I've been at almost every protest, except during the pandemic and I "hug my soles" fighting for something. And finally, that rebellion took shape, the energy that we lacked for so long. Any normal person would hardly wait for that.
Is this regime reckoning with the faculties, from Novi Pazar via Belgrade to Novi Sad, see it as proof of power or powerlessness, consolidation or craze?
I think it's primarily about intimidation and trying to extinguish any flames. The message is clear: if you don't obey, you will end up like those who got fired. But they failed to intimidate us to the point of giving up. That flame in the universities does not go out. On the contrary, it is stronger, no matter how much it may not seem that way. And during the collection of signatures on December 28, we saw how much the citizens still support the students, how much we all support the idea. We are more united as a society, more connected and aware of what is happening and that each of us can be next.
Are you in contact with someone from the Faculty of Medicine?, with students? What is the atmosphere like??
I don't want to push myself among the students because that wouldn't be right. They have their own vision and we, who have not managed to make a fundamental change for years, should not interfere with them, but should support them. After all, they are fighting for their future in this country. When it comes to professors, there is a very active group at the Faculty of Medicine that works to strengthen the university community and spread solidarity. However, there are also many who remain silent. On the one hand, I can understand that, a lot of them are also employed in various health institutions, and if they lose that job or if they are somehow removed, it affects the professor's employment as well. But again, this is not a moment for silence, because we know that silence keeps this regime where it is, but it is time for everyone to rebel.
You have two children., one is in the upper grades of elementary school, My daughter is a high school student.. How do they feel that their mother was fired in this way?
They are very angry, especially the daughter. And scared. While there were more protests, they were afraid that something would happen to me or my husband. Now, when I occasionally appear in public, they are afraid that someone will attack me. My son and I watched a movie together A precedent - he was very shaken and scared for me. In the end he said to me: "Mom, please... I know you'll still go where you're already going, but don't be right in front of the police."
These days, Aleksandar Vučić signed the so-called Mrdić laws. What does this mean for the judiciary??
A terrible defeat. I sincerely hope that the entire judiciary will rebel against it. It is clear that this was done because of the regime's fear of the law and the court.
Do you think that the judiciary really has the strength to resist??
I believe there is. Suspensions and protests have already been announced in Novi Sad. I hope the same will happen in Belgrade. By doing so, he will protect himself, his profession, his dignity and, ultimately, all of us who live here.
Speaking of solidarity and protection of the profession, two professors of the Faculty of Medicine, Dušan Škiljević and Miloš Bajčetić, re-election to the position was prevented due to an anonymous application, but the re-election was ultimately confirmed and the professors remained at the Faculty.
The problem arose with the form filled out by the department, which sends a request to the dean's office to announce a competition. That form was changed at one point, and objections were raised to their choices because, allegedly, the new form was not used.
This, however, has nothing to do with their academic achievements nor with the fulfillment of the conditions for re-election. Apart from those two, 17 other teachers used the same form and there were no objections to their elections - only to the elections of Bajčetić and Škiljević, who are known to support student demands and to have been on the strike committee. It was obvious why this was happening. The pressure exerted by the students by protesting in support of the two of them and me, in their case, fortunately, bore fruit. Their elections were put on the agenda and, with great applause from their colleagues, both were re-elected to the position.
What do you think is next? What kind of further government action should we expect — calmer or even harsher?
They will not settle. There is always someone who, if only out of spite, will want to bully those who have rebelled, regardless of the fact that, for example, they fully meet all the requirements for being elected to a higher position. The goal is to send a message that anyone who is not with the government can expect some kind of punishment, milder or harsher.
And then?
If we all rebel, then they have nowhere to go. It is the best way to protect ourselves.
